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Response and Part 2:
Dear J/Mike, Thanks for taking the time to compose your message to me. I am glad that despite my somewhat flippant comments that may have caused offence,a line of communication has been opened. I admire your site mate,you are like the David Icke or recovery conspiracy and i like David Icke.
No problem – I like to reply to people who doubt what I have to say as most of the time it reinforces my stance as well as providing me with yet another reason to continue doing what I am doing.
Just want to clear up one or two points. In an earlier post i asked you why do you think AA exists? You assumed that i was saying AA is the only solution to Alcoholism. You failed to mention that i see AA as a support network for suffering Alcoholics and not the "be all and end all" of Alcohol addiction. My argument has been primaraly a disagreement against your perception of AA being a cult. Having taken time to read your experiance regarding being forced to attend AA I feel that this would give anyone in that situation a negative view of the organisation. Any Alcoholic that attends AA will at some point recognise the destructive behaviour caused by active Alcoholism, If not, then there is a good case for the individual A:to be a stereo-typical Binge Drinker or B:not progressed far enough into Alcohol dependancy to warrant serious self examination regarding the illness.
You say you do not think AA is the only solution to alcoholism, and even if that is the case, I still maintain that you see it as having the only valid definition of what constitutes an alcoholic. You make the assumption that all people see alcoholism as an illness which they do not. In other words you place anyone that attends AA and doubts it in a no win situation – that is to say if they fail to acknowledge AA’s stereotype of the alcoholic then they are either a binge drinker, or have not suffered enough. Maybe I am wrong, but as for the latter, might you be subtlety implying that they are in some kind of denial? If that is the case this raises another concern I have with AA: any reluctance to fall in line with the program is met with accusations of denial, and rather conveniently AA regards this as another symptom of what it calls the illness of alcoholism. I have to take my hat off to AA because it has duped most of the world into believing that any doubt/hate/unhappiness with its program should be seen as part of the illness. This effectively renders AA untouchable. Is it any wonder so few want to challenge this publicly when they are labelled in such a way?
I think it's awful that you were forced into AA. I attended because Alcohol had brought me to my knees physicaly. I had thought i had hit my rock bottom despite the fact that i still had my home,GF,driving licence,job blah blah blah. I walked into AA 5 years ago and ironicaly enough thought "What a pile of shit" However, if only i had listened to the characteristics of the Alcoholic maybe i would not have continued to drink and ended up losing all of the above. Im a chronic relapser,If you think this proves AA doesn't work i would have to disagree due to the fact that pre-relapse, i never worked the programe as suggested. Subsequently i was nicked on numerous occasions for Alcohol related incidents,Fighting in pubs,4 times over the limit on a drink drive,Fare evasion on public transport,public disorder etc. All caused by my inability to stop drinking and to stay away from Alcohol. AA despite it's critics, does give hope and meaning and most importantly sobriety to people who want it. Not many AA's have completed a thorough step 4,leaving guilt, usually blocked out by a few beers leading to a nasty relapse and the whole thing starts again. You guy's know the score with problem drinking but im not sure if i can class you as full blown Alcoholics, otherwise there is no doubt in my mind you would identify immidiately with the horror stories of where drinking can take us and have enough intelligence to know that 1 drink is never enough for an Alcoholic. I cannot drink responsibly. I could, if i wanted, try some controlled drinking and yes, i might get away with it for a few weeks maybe even a month, but thats when the illness really grabs hold and says"hey guess what? you can drink normally" Within a while i know i willl be back in trouble.
You assume that AA was the solution because your willingness to listen to what AA was saying coincided with losing all the things you list. But has it ever occurred to you that your desire to stop drinking came from losing all those things and not because you decided to do AA ‘properly’? Just a thought. The fact that AA told you these things would happen if you did not stop drinking does not in turn mean AA is right about everything else. I mean I could have told you this would happen if you did not do something about your drinking – would that mean you would have then concluded I am correct about everything else too?
You then say you ‘im not sure if i can class you as full blown Alcoholics’ - why not? You started off this letter by saying that you do not believe AA is the only way, but the more I read the more I doubt that. You then state that if we were we would have enough intelligence to identify with the horror stories and know that one drink is never enough. I am able to understand these stories, as well as the predicament many people both in and out of the rooms find themselves in. And again you make the assumption that we both drink; but these things are aspects of a drinking problem/alcoholism – they are not to be confused with being a part of the treatment or solution. You are making the mistake of combing the problem with the solution. Using Mike as an example, why is he any less of an alcoholic because his solution lies outside of AA? He has suffered just as much as many members of AA, and as a result of these consequences he has decided not to drink. Can you see why I find it hard to believe that you do not think AA is the only solution? Personally I sense you are merely saying that to make AA look less like a cult, but in practice you genuinely believe AA is the only way; this is a common trait amongst AA members.
You also continue to refer to this as an illness. As I said to you in my previous correspondence Mike chose to empower himself where you have chosen to admit your powerlessness and gain your ‘strength’ by handing your will and your life over to a Higher Power. The notion of powerlessness is pivotal to the illness model, but believe it or not, there are people out there that do not believe it is an illness, and not all of those people have never had a substance abuse problem, so you cannot say they do not understand.
AA has never ever given me the impression of being a Cult. there are no set rules,simply suggestions. Your not told the family wont understand or to recruit friends. Its only suggestions, upto the individual to decide if he/she carries out the suggestions. This is not cult behaviour in my opinion.
I am bored of hearing that the Steps are merely suggestions. Have you ever heard the slogan, ‘We suggest you do the Steps like it is suggested you wear a parachute if you are going to jump out of an aeroplane’? AA cannot force anyone to do anything, but it can place a lot of pressure on people to do so. Those members that do not do the Steps, or follow the dogma are soon going to feel like outcasts. Please don’t insult my intelligence by trying to tell me this is not the case as I have witnessed this process first hand during the meetings I attended. I’ll give you one example: The secretary for a meeting was looking for a chair and someone suggested a man when everyone looked at each other when the secretary laughed and said, ‘Are you serious? He does not work the Steps.’ I once shared that I did not believe in Steps 2 and 3 and at the end of the meeting a woman approached me and said, ‘Don’t worry my friend it took me 5 years of being in the rooms to find God.’ Let us be honest, if you do not fall in line, albeit slowly, you are not going to be met with approval and you’ll either have to leave or be forced to change.
I am an alright bloke sober, but put a drink inside me and watch me go. Total Chos ensues. I need AA more than it needs me. It's always gonna be around until science produces a remedy. Alcohol is such a problem because it's so available.You dont have to hide in the shadows waiting for a dealer you can just buy it and its cheap. Its not a game or something to mess about with, it's killing people and ruining lives. I respect what you guys are saying but i disagree with your cult theory. Also not all treatment for other illnesse's are sucsessful, there is treatment for HIV but it doesn't always stop full blown AIDS, There is chemotherapy but it doesn't always stop the spread of cancer,there is AA but it doesn't stop people from dying of Alcoholism. I notice you left my examples of Withdrawal out of your letter not to mention Liver disease and Delirium Tremnums (I wonder if you have ever had the full on DT'S) Anyway i hope your advice goes on to help the millions of alcoholics who have found the rooms and dismissed them, or the newcommer who finds you first.
I have had my consequences from my substance abuse, mental, physical and emotional, trust me on that. I agree not all treatment is successful but AA’s success rate is 5% which just so happens to be the same as spontaneous remission, i.e. no treatment at all. My issue with AA is that it lies about its success rate and it automatically blames the individual for any failure – “the program is faultless, it is only people that aren’t.” Further to these points the fact that so many people regard AA as the only solution, often masked by the assumption that AA’s description of the problem is accurate across the board, also has the effect of halting research into much needed alternatives. I also have a problem with how AA does not allow its members to graduate by getting them to define themselves by what is essentially only a problem. The list could go on… but I will add I am also horrified by the way in which AA turns many genuine victims into perpetrators, i.e. look at your part in it.
The way I, and many others, have been, and are treated, for airing our concerns only serves to reinforce our points. Take yourself for example, your initial contact was ‘flippant’ by your own admission – but in your defence, this is not abnormal. Have a look at what other members of your so-called spiritual fellowship are saying on my videos.
Peace love and unity,stay in touch.
Regards
StatusEightThanks for the response nonetheless.
J
J can be contacted at j@blamedenial.co.uk