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The latest letters are posted on: Page 14 Updated 21/09/08
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." (Henny Youngman)
Letters
Hi
I found your myspace account through the group recoverwithoutaa or something like that. I think I got the link off blame denial. Your photo thumbnail is in that group and i recognised it because i watched your video clips on blame denial. Incidently, i was watching one of the clips late, in the half dark of my flat, and then the drink is to die thing goes red and the metal music starts up and I jumped out of my skin! I realised how jumpy AA has made me about coincidences and higher powers and my firstthought was that it meant something! just goes to show the automatic fear that they instill in you.
Apologies for the shock tactics I employed in 'Do the Steps or Die.' I was hoping that people who had experience of AA and those that didn't would not be able to tell it was an anti-AA video until the last possible moment. The general belief out there is that 'tough love' works and we need to be as hard as we can on addicts and alcoholics (with regard to instilling fear in them) all in the name of smashing denial. I am not convinced this is the way forward. From my own experience it was fear that has crippled me for the majority of my life; if anything what I needed was some hope. AA pretends to offer us this with the promises, but a close inspection of the Steps will reveal that fear is the backbone of them. Talk of a spiritual awakening in Step 12 does not really help anyone because it is such a vague term. Bottom line; if you do the steps you can be sure of one thing, you will NEED the rooms to survive the pain, which sadly only perpetuates the problem.
I started to question things over a year ago but people have an answer for every doubt, you can supposedly have your own conception of god (I am back to being an atheist) and you can take what you need and leave the rest (allegedly). I noticed a couple of mates recently go screwy when they both changed sponsors to some guy known as "big book" dave from CA (they seem to be even more evangelical than AA in Brighton) both the girls started to get more starry eyed and say it has changed their life. To me they look sicker than ever. I think after a few years you get depressed because there is no higher power magically changing your life and making you feel good so you have to go deeper into the thing, brainwash further, so that you feel good on the placebo effect of being in touch with a warped god that manages your life and work the programme well 'ard.
I continue to hear interesting and disturbing things about the goings on in CA. Speed seems to be of the essence when conducting the steps under the guide of a CA sponsor. I even heard they reduced each of the Steps to one word and some people were being pushed into 'doing' them in one session!!! Can you imagine?? 'To me they look sicker than ever..' That line sticks out for me. I thought about that for quite some time having read your letter almost a week ago. How is it that we are the only ones that notice this? Perhaps it is because people go (or are sent to AA) with the hope that they will stop drinking, and for those that do stick around, many of them achieve this. Their friends, family, employers, etc. have made their sobriety the be all and end all and if they are staying sober 'in' AA then AA is seen to be succeeding. So despite the character changes, the brainwashing and religious dogma, any observers will only be concerned about any drinking rather than fundamental changes in someone's personality. Oh, and what happens when someone does drink, more than they did before ever attending an AA meeting? The alcoholic is to blame and no one ever asks any questions about AA and its program. On that level AA is both infallible and unaccountable. (Quite cleverly it would be impossible to make AA accountable due to anonymity and the Traditions. Put it this way, where or who would you contact in AA should you have any issues with it?)
I came to the point that i went to Adult Children of Alcoholics recently. they don't bang on about the steps and the big book, it has only been going for 6 months in Brighton and so there isn't the long term sobriety nutters in there. I started to be able to share about some childhood shit, publically proclaimed my family to be dysfunctional and my Mum to be alcoholic and shed some tears. I realised that AA wasn't addressing anything, all it was doing is scratching the surface. So I started to get pissed off with AA. After a couple of weeks of ACoA I went to look on the internet to see if I could find others that had the same experience, doubting the effectiveness of AA and seeing ACoA as getting to the route of the problem. This was last Thursday. Since then I have been devouring the information in your site, Orange Papers and have joined Yahoo's 12 step free forum. I have been on the internet a lot. I have quit secretary of a meeting a month early and I have asked the GSR to take my last meeting saying I can't make it. If they praise me for all my hard work and buy me a cake I will puke on it. I was secretary of the meeting the Saturday just gone and i had a head full of anti-aa reality. I was disgusted, facing the meeting, watching all those sage like nods, laughs at the standard tales and anecdotes, the sloganeering my best thinking made me see what is really going on.
I am treasurer of a meeting on the Sunday too and again I saw it with the eyes of reality rather than the eyes of the brainwashed. It is astonishing that i was hooked. Even more disturbing is the otherwise intelligent decent people being indoctrinated and turning into dependent bitter "disease" lunatics because they are scared that they are going to be overcome with an uncontrollable urge to drink until oblivion if they don't work hard at a set of dodgy religious instructions (suggestions my arse).
Yes sitting in meetings and realising the truth is most uncomfortable. My exit from AA was not that easy because everyone I loved had become indoctrinated with AA through the process of amends and I believed that if I left AA many of them would abandon me adopting ‘tough love’ tactics, thinking that I was going to go back to my old ways. I spent three months researching AA and wrote a 10,000 word letter to all my close friends and family explaining my decision to leave. However before I did this, I shared my true feelings in a meeting. (You can read what I recall of this share below.) Many people have mentioned Adult Children of Alcoholics to me but the jury is still out on all that.
As you can see it is quite fresh and I am quite angry. I am a bit obsessed with deprogramming it all and seeing it for what it actually is. Over the last few days I have gone to bed thinking of the mentalness of it all and waken up with it on my mind. But I have also felt more relaxed and free, I smile to myself in the street like some moron! i am enjoying the sunshine and flowers of summer with new eyes.
When I removed myself from all this I felt that pink cloud phenomenon so often mentioned in AA. I felt as though I had been liberated and that powered me along for a while at the beginning. However that soon ran out and I had to come back down to earth, and do something I had never done; take responsibility for myself and my life. Part of the attraction of the 12 Steps to me was that in Steps 2 and 3 I could hand my will and my life over to something and thus continue to neglect to take responsibility. Alcohol and drugs were the same too; once I was drinking or addicted to a drug, I no longer had to think for myself. Drugs, alcohol and the Steps were the perfect distraction for me. The art of isolation, and the game of avoidance. They say 90% of life is showing up, and I have to agree with that. As long as I am doing stuff, and not hiding away, life continues to be interesting, and things happen, both good and bad, but positive thoughts seem to always be there provided I am not on my own too much, or hiding away, avoiding life. Meeting people who have been through what I have is the hardest thing, but my work for the site affords me the chance to at least communicate with people about all this. It has also helped me to alleviate the isolation that one inevitably feels when leaving AA.
I went to my last ACoA meeting on Monday. I was going to continue going there for a bit to off load some childhood stuff but it's making me feel like a walking problem. It refers to us as having a disease that infected us in childhood and still plagues us today. It is a 12 step thing after all. I was going to ignore the step bit but someone shared that the "programme really works" and I realised it was the same shit, different "fellowship".
Where has my mind been?
Sorry about the rant. I am going to stay abstinent for the time being (it has been 2 yrs and 2 months) and I might experiment in the future but for now I am happy just to be free of unhealthy fear and worry that I am not living my life right.
I knew that if my drinking ever became a problem it would reinforce my dependence on AA and with that my chances of leaving permanently would suffer dramatically. It is still my advice that abstinence is best, but this is a question we must ask ourselves. Step one is very powerful and any consequences arising from our drinking may set of that war on self in our heads again. Questioning AA is all I can do now, if I was to question the notion of abstinence then the danger would be that I would have to fight two battles at once. As the Indians used to say, 'If you chase two rabbits, the chances are you will catch neither.'
Thanks for replying
Not at all, thanks for writing to me. Stay in touch.
Anon
J a m e s G
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I was viewing your videos on youtube and they are compelling and
fascinating. I very much respect your questioning the principles and
practices done by AA. I will say that from my personal experience, as one
who has suffered what is called a persistent depression that I have lived
with since I was a child - I am now 47 years old - that the whole therapy
industry is another area that seems to almost be viewed as only helpful to
people. I have come to question the tenets of therapy and have found as I
age that a lot of what I was told in therapy when I was young and trusted
that those whose care I was in knew better ended up leaving painful scars on
me. Having visited with a number of therapists since around age 20 or so, I
have had my fill of them. And I too seem to recall hearing that unless I
attended therapy my problems would never get better. Statistically, from
what I have understood, almost as many people get better spontaneously as
those who improve in therapy. Anyhow, I have also felt alone in questioning
a field that is seen as only helping others. I have mainly journaled my
ideas over the years but never knew of anyone else going through such
questioning. And although you had been questioning AA, I still feel a
kinship with you in that you also question an organizational approach that
it seems from what I understand of your experience ended up being almost
taboo to even question.
I find this approach, just as in the 12 steps approach as one being told one
must walk the straight and narrow is a problematic phenomenon in all walks
of life. All of these straight and narrow approaches, no matter what are
doomed to failure in my point of view because, we are all human and straight
and narrow is ultimately unrealistic. Even medical science preaches this
and when people fail to be able to follow this straight and narrow approach
to "health" then doctors play the blame the patient game. Suddenly, it is
the patient's fault they are not healthy, never a question about the medical
approach to the problem. So I guess I am here saying that your awareness of
or questioning of AA practices may relate to a larger problem going on in
our world.
In closing, thank you for expressing your view. Thanks again for coming
forward with your concerns, which as you said, you can openly acknowledge
may be wrong, but you had reached a point of questioning and I too have been
there and I continue to do so with my life.Anon
Thank you so much for your letter – it interested me most of all because you appear not to have had any contact with AA or the 12 Steps but feel much like many of the visitors to this site. I would love to hear more about your experience, and perhaps read some of your journals. I know that many people in the therapy field do endorse the 12 Steps, and I even remember being astounded by the sheer number of new 12 steppers that vowed to join the field in their attempts to carry the message. But that aside, perhaps what we have in common is a desire to question these approaches, but as patients we feel as though we do not have a voice, and at times I certainly felt silenced and feared speaking out because I was the one with ‘the problem’ and thus not fit to comment on the so-called ‘solution’. I think any approach that deals with individuals in this way is demeaning and is doomed to fail, just like the 12 Steps and some modern therapy techniques.
J a m e s G
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HI James
I've found that it is pointless to try and engage in discussion with
someone or an organisation who is unable to be reasonable or
tolerant. Hence I ignore AA.
Instead I looked for other like minded people to work with, to
provide alternatives. I am choosing to spend my energies creating a
positive alternative.
By the way the NHS does not endorse 12-step or faith based means of
recovery.
I am here in Greater London and hope to get some face-to-face
activities going. Have a look at www.unhooked.com, it may be helpful
to you.
So good luck to you!I am glad someone is using their energy into looking for alternatives to AA. I still feel however that the likes of Agent Orange and myself provide a service in which people can read about the AA we have experienced, and with that make the choice to seek out alternatives, should what we express ring true to them. AA has such a grip on the treatment of Alcoholism and I believe there is an urgency to expose its many flaws and weaknesses, as well as the potential dangers involved with membership.
I will have a look at the link above and let you know what I think. What alternative do you currently use?
Thank you for your positive work and your letter.
J a m e s G
PS I don’t mean to ask this in a rude way but I can’t think of any other way of asking this; does my website say that the NHS does endorse the 12 steps? If so, can you tell me where and I will remove it.
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James,
Just a quick note to say I respect your decision in shutting down the site, and also applaud the work that you have already done. Any and all efforts to get the message of truth out there are valuable, and yours has been a particularly successful one. I can imagine that it has been no small undertaking, and the commitment needed to keep such a site running would be huge.
Moving on is perhaps the hardest part of it. I keep telling myself that I can’t continue to devote the energy that I am to “hating” (for want of a MUCH better word) AA, and then getting drawn back in. I wish you every success in whatever you decide to do.
Regards,
Stephen
Stephen,
Thank you for your letter and your kind words about the site. I am sorry the site has to close down too and I am doing my best to see what I can do about either keeping it live (with no updates) or finding someone else who might like to run it. As you can imagine trying to find someone who would take on such an undertaking as well as share my precise views on AA is virtually impossible.
Take care and thanks again,
J a m e s G
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Thank you James for a very mature and thoughtful website regarding the AA
fellowship. Sorry to note that you are going to discontinue, however your
reasons are undoubtedly correct. Have a brilliant life. For what it's
worth, I shall leave the "fellowship" on 13 October '06 when my commitments
elapse. At least my head is already out the door-thanks to you (and Orange)!
Be kind to yourself.
Noel.Noel,
Thanks for the email. I wish you all the best too and I am glad the site has served you well.
J a m e s G
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Hey,
Just wanted to say ive watched bout all ure movies, I have drinking problems myself and found the AA movies to give me chils, The way uve presented ure movies so far is absolutely genius, I hope u keep on and make a big movie out of it.
Thanks for the compliments, however, I am afraid to say that I have no plans to make any more films at present. I am glad you found them useful.
Let us know how it goes.
J a m e s G
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Wow…
i am left speechless with goose bumps. i can't wait to watch the rest of your videos.
i relate all too well...today makes day 33 free.
is this an actual movie? if so, when will it be released?
i'm very intrigued by you already-It is interesting to hear from people straight from Youtube. I always wanted to combine the videos with the site (blamedenial.co.uk) simply because in order to explain my concerns with AA and the 12 Steps, it takes a lot of words and most people probably do not have the time to read everything that is available. This is where the videos have proved so useful. You can communicate a message, with music and images and put your point across more effectively. However any real examination of the subject would have to involve a lot of reading, especially for anyone ‘programmed’ with AA dogma.
I have no plans on making a movie, so it will never be released. I made it look like a trailer to a film, but I suppose we could call that artistic license. I was going to make 12 in all, but I am afraid I no longer have the time. Apologies.
I am glad you got something out of them and I would recommend going over to the Orange-papers.org if you have not done so already.
J a m e s G
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I went to a treatment center, and was against the 12 steps from day one. They told me I was powerless over my drug use, but I want sent there because of My Decisions. As I was there over a remainder of what was supposed to be 45 days, with every step they pushed on me it became harder and harder to stand against the program. But I had enough removance from the program and was able to point out the points where it was infact going against the program itself that other patients started to listen to me, people who had been there for 40 days to my 20 would open their eyes to the program and stopped going to the AA meetings that our center would take us to every night as an option. Shortly after the counsellors noticed this they brought me in a room to talk to me privately, where they told me I was writing my death note, and the death note of others - not only was I "committing suicide" but I was also "murdering innocent addicts". They decided to remove me from the program after my 28th day, saying I needed help that they could not give - they told my parents I would be better if I went to a psych ward and recommended one. I went to the psych ward for 2 weeks, then I was removed from that program because I "did not have any psychiatric problems" and was "not meant for this program". When I was told this, I knew something was up. The thing that stuck with me the most was when a counsellor at my Treatment/Recovery Center said "No one is too stupid for this program. But you may be too smart for it." I haven't used, relapsed as they would call it, and after I stopped working the 12 steps (because I felt compelled to when sent to the Psychiatric Ward) for the first time of my sobriety - I feel happy, and have no guilt, shame, or regret. I believe in everything you are trying to get out with this video, and I'm going to visit your website shortly after I post this.
Nicker
Nicker.
Thank you for your letter and I think it says it all and as such I have nothing to add other than well done for finding your own way.
Stay in touch and let us know how it goes.
J a m e s G
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